THE TRUTH IS STILL TOLDMaking Cruelty Visible "So Easy A Monkey Can Do It!!!" |
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The Bad Advocate List Message List Reply | Forward | Delete Message #795 of 4566 < Prev | Next > Wed Jul 7, 2004 5:12 pm Re: [AFRA_Directors] The Bad Advocate List You nailed it, Leonard. It is a SS vendetta list, since it deals with copyright violations, etc, which have nothing to do with the quality of advocacy. Always speaking out of both sides of his face. I say we try to talk to her once more. I'll volunteer, as long as I can hide behind Kay's skirts. (Kay, do you wear a skirt?) GAH At 08:02 PM 7/7/2004, you wrote: I think I have been perfectly clear on the Bad Advocate thing from day one. It is bad, bad taste any way it is done. I want the whole thing to go away. Period. Every time I read it, it just ticks me off. Especially the essay about self-aggandizement. SS presents herself, without question, sounding like the most self-aggandizing person in the whole kingdom. And people ending up there just because they pissed SS off is REALLY bad, because she is so easy to piss off. The two names named that I have no use for is Cygan and Welker. Ric Thoma doesn't belong on there at all and Cheryl Barnes is an Excellent advocate. SS's original complaint against Barnes was alleged copyright, which is NOT a criteria of good-bad adovcate. It is SS's personal vendetta list and I am perfectly happy to let her do whatever in the world she wants. But I am sick and tired of her climbing up on our backs to wave her flag. I would just as soon completely disassociate with SS and never see any of her stuff again. This vendetta against Blair is absolutely the last straw. I am sick and tired of SS's temper tantrums and Bad Advocate list taking so much of our time and bandwidth. If she can't work and play nice, we don't need her. And we damned sure don't need to spend so much time putting out the fires she starts. EVERY TIME she gets on a yahoogroup, she pisses people off instantly with her smartass, cocky, condescending attitude. As far as I am concerned, she has burnt up the last of her credibility. I am de-fanging her. I am assuming the position that she has nothing of value to say and encouraging people to pay no attention to her. Like I put on the AFRA Talkline page- If someone is obviously "off their meds" please be "liberal" and ignore them. OK? PS- During my typing of this, my wife has been in here constantly haranging me to go to church tonight (potluck). If I don't go, I don't get anything to eat tonight. All I have eaten today is about 8 cookies. So I might be extra pissed right now. If so, please cut me some slack. It is rather rare that I get pissed enough to actually say what I am thinking. Well actually no, I still am not saying what I am really thinking. But that involves cusswords. A lot of them. So after I waste 3 or 4 hours at church tonight, I will be back. Or maybe not. I might still be pissed. Leonard Message #291 of 4566 < Prev | Next > RE: [AFRA_Directors] Bad Advocates list Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:31 am My opinion of the Bad Advocates List. I don't know many of the people on it, for one. Cheryl Barnes...her site was the first one I went to. Someone from there told me to send some money, then I'd get some help. Well, I didn't HAVE any money and couldn't send any. I got into one little tift with Ms. Barnes regarding someone from CPS Watch claiming they had gotten some legislation passed in Missouri. I knew for a fact that CPS Watch had nothing to do with it. It was Deanna Gallagher, whom I know personally that's worked her butt off with NO help from CPS Watch. I stated so on CP_Prosecutions. Cheryl came on saying she had never said anything like this. I knew Cheryl hadn't, but one of her people did, and she should have corrected the inconsistency. That's it. I don't have a problem with her. I don't know if she has a problem with me. My dealings with Dean Tong were simply....he wanted me to send him quite a sum of money, then he would give me his expert names and I would be able to pay them exorbitant amounts of money for their services. I could get that for free elsewhere. I don't support the rabid father's rights movements. That's all I know of him. I don't think he's named as a Bad Advocate, but as a consultant in which the difference is explained. I could be wrong. I "worked" with John Welker who basically tried to control me. He told me I was not to return to my husband. I was not to advocate, have more children, or associate with anyone but people he approved. He wanted to know where I was 24/7 after I was released from jail. (Dennis Jacques can verify some of this...he was on the phone while I was in jail and heard some of it.) He kind of freaked me out. He threatened my husband with a bunch of stuff because he got pissed that Slade sent out the We Won article. I think he got pissed at Leo for posting it, too, but I don't know. Maybe it should be named a list of people Kay doesn't like, or People who don't wish to speak with Kay? I am familiar with the Cygan issue. It was ME who sent that family to her. I didn't know she was the way she is. Might as well tell you all, since everything is confidential anyhow...the family staying with her was the McClarens. I met and know Taylor personally. I sent her to one of my safe houses in IL., then went to meet her. It was one of MY people who loaded her stuff up when she went off to Renee's. When she was "booted" from Renee's, it was MY home she came to next. ( Note here There was an ACTIVE warrant out on this Mom. I would say this was an Illegal dealing of Kay's Famtrac) I saw what she had before Renee and after. So did my husband. I saw her badly sunburned legs when she arrived at my home. I do not believe is a liar and believe what she told me went on in Cygan's home. I am also privy to more information on Ms. Cygan and she is definitely one to stay away from. I think others need to be warned. Tom and Aimee D. I don't know. I spoke with each of them one time. They both seemed pretty nice to me. I don't know anyone else on the list that I can recall right now. I know that there are some "supporters" named. I personally like Eric Von Kleist and think he's an asset. I don't have a problem with him. And of course, our very own Suey, whom I also don't have a problem with. Suzanne's point of listing the supporters is a "war tactic". If you strip the bad guy of his supporters, it shuts them down quicker. Suzanne has told me that she will take the supporters off if they no longer support the "bad one". I believe Sue is on there as a mistake. I don't think she supported Aimee. I think Sue was trying to keep the peace and keep a group going she was moderating. I do so wish you would say so to Suzanne, Sue, and get yourself removed. However, I do understand your point in this. Suzanne has also said she would remove the bad advocate if they came forward and made amends. I think "bad advocates" need to brought out into the open. Therefore, I agree with the bad advocate list. I need to know who is trusted and who isn't in the line of work I'm doing. I can't have any mistakes. I've already made enough with families being abused by others. It was the Cygan issue that began this list. Cygan was your test case. If you could convince people of wrong doing you'd eventually expand that list, which you've done. I'd had enough of my families being hurt by others. I admit it, I'm the one who went to Suzanne asking for ideas on how to deal with this and how to let others know who to avoid. The Bad Advocate list was an idea you whipered into her ear and as usual she took it as her own.I had McClarens well documented as I happened to have my own people helping her who were willing to write affidavits. Suzanne had information from other sources as well. I also know Suzanne personally and have seen her work. I've seen her documentation on cases. I've "lived" with her for three weeks, worked on her film with her, stayed in the same room with her. We worked 18 hour days. I've seen her speak, deal with the public, get thrown in jail, interview judges, lawyers, social workers, parents, etc. If she says she has documentation on the "bad advocates", I would believe her. Face it, you'd swear to anything she said if it helps Kay. Maybe the list needs to be called something else or refined. I truly think it's needed. Of course you do. You aren't brave enough to attack anyone on your own, so you hide behind SS and her attack dogs, coordinate the attacks behind the scenes and come up looking like the good guy. I don't want the Cygans of the movement hurting others. (I only mention her because I know of this one personally.) I have disagreed with Suzanne on many occasions and have not suffered the "wrath of Suzanne". I find her easy to work with, albeit a bit stubborn at times. Stubborn is what makes her so effective and is a good thing. She didn't back down to the cop harassing us. As I remember it, She stuck the camera in the cop's face. Sounds like the two of you harassed the cops. She didn't falter a bit. Meanwhile, I was about to pass out from fear. You didn't because you had SS to hide behind, and SS was willing to take the blame. Aren't you lucky she loves being the martyr. Isn't removing someone from their membership at AFRA a sort of bad advocate list? Isn't it the same thing, albeit a bit more passive? So Suzanne's way is more "out there in the open" than AFRA quietly removing someone. Sometimes, I think things should be out there. Isn't that what we're about...putting CPS out there for all to see it's abuses? We want CPS to be accountable (and judges, GALS, etc) why not bad advocates? Why aren't you on there? In my pinion you are Far worse than anyone listed. Kay |